Toronto Paper Says Macedonia Is Greek

The Alexander the Great statue in Skopje
The Alexander the Great statue in Skopje

The authoritative Canadian newspaper National Post of Toronto published in its Internet version a travel article entitled Yours to Conquer: Macedonia Is in the Midst of an Alexander The Great Rebranding, written by Bert Archer, on FYROM’s efforts to appropriate names and symbols of ancient Macedonia.

Archer begins his article by stressing: “And that’s the first thing you need to know about Macedonia: It’s not Macedonia. The Macedonia that most of us grew up with (…) that Macedonia is in Greece, a couple of hundred kilometers south of the border of what is now officially and painstakingly known as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, which celebrated the 20th anniversary of its official recognition on April 8.”

“It’s called antiquitization, and it’s one of the most entertaining aspects of this particular Balkan state. Based on the claim that ancient Macedonians were not Greek, and despite the fact that whether they were or not, they didn’t live here, the current nationalist government is looking to build popular support, and a tourism market, on the backs of Philip & Son, putting up statues of them all over the country, and making them the center of what they’re calling Skopje 2014 (it’s got its own Wikipedia page), which is nothing less than a rebuilding of the city’s core (much of which was destroyed in a Yugoslav-era earthquake),” he added.

Archer also mentions that despite the fact that Mother Teresa was born and raised in Skopje that her museum, the Memorial House of Mother Teresa in Skopje, was empty when he visited it. This was not the case when he visited her tomb in Calcutta and found it packed.

Finally, he wrote that FYROM’s identity is still undefined. “The current government likes the Alexander approach. The next one may prefer Mother Teresa, or its history as part of the Ottoman Empire or, who knows, the role it played in Yugoslavia,” he said.


130 COMMENTS

  1. Not sure to which Nation and which borders you are referring to! This has nothing to do with continuity with any nation. Rather a peoples right to choose their identity and what they are called. We are proud of our Slav heritage but that is only a part of the whole. No one in the balkans is of pure blood or pure culture. We are all related in one way or another. But nevertheless, we Macedonians are as different from the Bulgarians as the Bulgarians are from the Serbs and from the Croatians, Monte Negrans ……! As such we would like our unique Identity. Why is it so wrong to identify ourselves by the Territory in which we were born which for Thousands of years has been known as Macedonia. e.g. Americans, Canadians have done so including in the 21st century!

  2. LOL! No Slav inhabitants in Greece! You crazy?????? This is the problem with Greece. If you only would admit the near ethnic cleansing, i.e. forced assimilation, maybe we would have a starting point in this discussion. But to deny that is like the NAZI’s in 1944 saying there are no Jews in Germany!

  3. Not everyone in the region of Macedonia should have the right to self identify as a Macedonian. Macedonian is one identity and this goes back to antiquity. This is why we have the right to e called Macedonians and our country Macedonia, without north, upper, Slav and all these crap. The rest should go [email protected] off and find another name to avoid confusion, they have occupied our land anyway.

  4. It is not exactly ethnic cleansing, Macedonians are still there but forced to accept the forged hellenic identity.they will remember when they are liberated. Perhaps a DNA test can prove them they are real Macedonians not negroid Greeks

  5. A Greek with Turkish looks and Turkish family names is demanding somebody else to go find a new identity?

    How Greekologic is that? No wonder you have failed big time since ” Oxi ” day.

  6. You must be Bulgarian or Albanian. A true Macedonian would not offend our brothers the Turks

  7. Lolski Mr Naumovski,what you know about Greece?I live in Macedonia,the only living Bulgarians in here are economic emigrants.

  8. There is only one Macedonian city in fyrom,Heracleia,the rest land of ancient Macedonia belongs to Greece,ancient Macedonians spoke a Greek idiom,especially the official language was the Attic idiom,there are inscriptions in Greeks everywhere,in graves,scripts,marbles and you are talking about …..protoslavic…language?Slavs came in area a millennium after Macedonian kingdom.
    Have you ever seen a Macedonian tomb? Try to read the script under Lion of Amphipolis, if you can….

  9. The funny thing is when you go to Greece millions know how to speak macedonian language ,, but in macedonia no 1 knows how’s to speak greek,,, same for Bulgaria and Serbia,,, long live Makedonija

  10. …The funny thing is when you go to Greece millions know how to speak Macedonian language ,, but in Macedonia no 1 knows how’s to speak Greek,,,

    Well,Cleo,you should know that every Greek speaks Macedonian,as its the same and one language,but very few can understand Bulgarian.
    Its true that there are not many Greek language speakers in fyrom,most of the Greeks left this land during Tito’s era.
    In Thessaloniki there’s an area called Kordelio,there you can meet Greek people from EX-YUGO lands.

  11. 6800,few years back,Gandeto invited the so-called professor who had other professors sign his absurd letter to a debate,the professor was nowhere to be found.Do you also know that most signatories rescinded from that letter?Some professors even critisize the author for hoodwinking them to believe what he was doing.This author is married to a Greek woman and who never stepped out of Peloponesos to research his thesis.That was the letter sent to President Obama.I don’t think I need to repeat what John Adams,Dr.Arnold Thomas,Deputy-Minister Hans-Joachim Fuchtel,Isocrates and Demosthenes have said,do I?.
    I will spare your agony.

  12. I guess holding a Economics degree in Greece is classified as being an academic. It doesn’t matter that you can only do single entry accounting that doesn’t know the difference between a CR or a DR, because you are an academic therefore smarter than one who knows how to read his bank statement! Lol. Greco Logic 101- “doesn’t matter if you can’t count, you have a degree re “

  13. Nothing to spare. Skops are Slavs who speak Bulgaria who live on Paionia lands which is a region North of Greece’s historic Macedonia. Skopian TV even shows they are slavs closer related to Bulgarians and Serbs than ancient Macedonians. It is skopians who often take on false names like Rosso to give the impression they are not Slavs. Greeks are happy to prove they are descendant from Ancient Macedonians but it is awesome that numerous professors and scholars not related to Greek ancestry do so on their own.

    A significant percentage of people from FYROM self identify as Albanians.

  14. p.s. my dear Cleo , i ‘m sure that you and your father also can’t even imagine what CLEOPATRA means

  15. Hahahahahahaha.this was so funny.dont say this things so open they will take u in for super crazy.i have a good friend doctor if u need to talk to him some time about your delusional thinking

  16. Almost 200 countries have now recognized Slav Macedonians as the sole descendants of ancient Macedonians. Accept the facts and STFU. Now Greek and Bulgarians shall either rename their annexed Macedonian territories to avoid confusion, if they don’t want to live with the fear of being forced in the future to donate them to Macedonia.

  17. Everyone knows half of ancient Greece was called Macedonia, now restricted to only a Northern province.

    The more recent finding of Philip’s tomb with Greek inscription clearly indicates Alexander was indeed 100% Greek.

    The Slavs position is profound, with no history. They are not only boorish, they lie.

    As further proof, contemporary Greeks won the first allied battle in the last word war against the greatest war machine known to mankind during that time. Even this barbaric war machine was developed by misconstruing the science and mathematics the Greeks provided. Hllter even released the Greek POWs for their gallantry as Churchill reiterated how heroes fight like Greeks. You think Alexander was a Slav?

    Slav’s have cave men descendants who engaged in bestiality and cannibalism while Greece was inventing language, culture, mathematics. What do you expect from peculiar Slavs and barbarians who try and push their race as superior like the toothless tattooed skin heads.

    The civilized world knows better. Greeks also contributed greatest to Western culture than any other nation, and are reiterated in universities through out the world. the Slavs have nothing so they fabricate shamelessly, boors.

  18. Jesus man, are you actually making this up or what?

    Ethnic Macedonians are the Greeks living in Macedonia, that is to say in the northern part of the country. They do speak Greek, the modern version of Ancient Greek, the language that was spoken in Ancient Macedonia.

    You know what, I clearly support your right to call yourselves in the way you want to. You can say that you are Macedonians, Monkeydonians, or anything else you want. It is right so self determination, a basic principle in human rights.

    You may not though steal history, you may not call yourselves descendants of Alexander the Great (since this is probably the last thing that someone would call you) and you may not distort history to create your own. I feel sorry for you, for being punished by all international scholars in a such manner.

  19. How are the Macedonians unique in this case? All Balkan states have engaged in the exact type of nation building that we find in Macedonia.

  20. The Onion is worst than the National Inquirer, all BS. I think putting up statues of a an ancient Greek in Bulgaria is also hysterical.

  21. What nonsense are you talking about? Do you have any idea about history? How can you possibly say Greece was manufactured when its existence and civilisation are more than 3000 years old?
    I understand you hate Greece for its glory but history is history and nothing and no one can change that. Unfortunately your country never existed that’s why you want to steal the identity of a glorious people in a vain attempt to feel something of this glory.

  22. Freitag, 7. Februar 2014

    Macedonia was never a part of the ancient Hellenic city-states

    One of the steps in the Scientific Method of Investigation is the publication of your obtained results. This is done, so that others by repeating the same experiment using same methodology may independently arrive to the same conclusion and verify whether it is true what you have accomplished with your own hypothesis. Once many independent laboratories—through their scientific research—confirm your results, then, the hypothesis that you have proposed becomes accepted and your findings acknowledged. I have said before, and I stand by my assertions that: (a) Macedonia was never a part of any ancient Greek city-state, nor were the ancient Macedonians ever considered by the ancient Greeks or by themselves, to be Greek. (b) Macedonia was never a member of any Hellenic League. Macedonia was not a member of the Greek Amphictyonic League either. Fact is that membership into these leagues was reserved for Hellenes only. And since Macedonians were not considered Hellenes, they were not admitted into these leagues. There is no record of either side voicing displeasure regarding this rule. And (c) in antiquity people knew that the boundary between Macedonia and Greece was the river Peneus and mount Olympus; to the south were the Greek tribes and to the north was Macedonia. I challenge all of you lecturers of history, including Professor Stephan Miller and his like-minded historians, to dispute my assertions and prove me wrong. When you claim or support a claim that “Macedonia was always Greek”, it is incumbent upon you—academic standards compel—to find at least one shred of evidence from the ancient chroniclers and bring it forward. Find other authors from antiquity who will agree with your own assertion. And please, instead of shielding yourself with ambiguous interpretations from the 18th and the 19th century philhellenic writers, convince the readers with valid, persuasive arguments. Bring to the table solid, irrefutable evidence from the ancient Greeks themselves or their contemporary Greek or Roman biographers and chroniclers. I will go on the limb and reiterate my opinion regarding the ethnicity of the ancient Macedonians: Anyone who claims that ancient Macedonia was a Greek land and that ancient Macedonians were Greeks or that Macedonians are stealing Greek heritage, is nothing less and nothing more than a corrupt, deceitful fabricator of history whose (scientific) thinking—devoid of substance—is based on personal beliefs and mythical constructs. Facts are not derived from beliefs or mythology. Scientific knowledge does not rest on feelings, nor is it supported by bad-time stories and mythology. Science needs concrete, verifiable evidence. I can safely state that I stand on the shoulders of others; I stand convinced that (1) you will be unable to prove Strabo, Scylax, Dichaerchus, Scymnus, and Dionysius wrong. These biographers have stated that Greece commences at the Ambracian Gulf, and terminates at the river Peneus.I am convinced that (2) you will be unable to prove Aeschines, Theopompus and Pausanias wrong, for not including Macedonia on their lists of the Amphictyonic people of Greece. I stand convinced that (3) you will have no answer as to why Thucydides found no room for Macedonia on his list of states on either side of the warring parties in the Peloponnesian War. Macedonia is found neither on the Athenian, nor on the Lacedaemonian side. These are hard facts that cannot be dismissed with lame excuses and manipulation of text. One cannot disregard evidence of this magnitude and bring forward a pitiful assertion like ´Macedonians spread Hellenic culture in the East´, instead. One cannot substitute and equate the words of a king (Philip V) “My ancestors Philip II and Alexander the Great conquered Greece”, with “but Macedonians had same names as Greeks”, nonsense. You can saturate the media with slogans and cry “thieves” as long as you want, but you will be unable to subvert and change the evidence left from the ancient authors. Fact is that you have bought some professors to put their whimsical shoulder on your “Greek” wheel, but fact is also that you are stuck in the mud of lies up to your knees and cannot move. The following piece of evidence reaffirms my position and demonstrates, once again, that truth is not a manipulative currency and cannot be suppressed for long. The following passages were taken from the Canadian Macedonian Historical Society Review written by Alexander Nitsis: “As one of the powers which had guaranteed the independence of the Greek Kingdom in 1828, Great Britain held the position that the Greek claims to extension of their territories were greater (as of 1880) than the boundaries which the Greek city-states held in antiquity. This position was brought forward by Major J.C. Ardagh, (later became Sir Major-General). He was part of the British delegation that was attached to the Special Embassy during the Congress at Berlin on June 3rd, 1878. He was also appointed as her Majesty´s Commissioner for the delineation of the frontier of Bulgaria (September 7th, 1878); and was employed during the conference at Constantinople in 1881. Sir J.C. Ardagh was born on August 9, 1840, and died on September 30th, 1907. Before the Conference at Constantinople, Major Ardagh communicated with the British Foreign Office on the issue of the new Greek frontier with his “Memorandum on the Ancient Boundaries of Greece”, which was received at the Foreign Office on February 24th, 1881. The information which Major Ardagh presented in his memorandum (quoting sources from antiquity) reaffirms claims made by Macedonians today that, Macedonia was never part of any Greek (Hellenic) state during ancient times. If ancient Greek sources did not see Macedonia as part of the “Ancient Greek World”, how can the modern Greek state see Macedonia and its people as Greek? What Major Ardagh´s memorandum does raise is questions not only to the issue of the true Greek frontier, but also to the true identity of the people of Macedonia. Since 1913, the end of the Second Balkan War when Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia and Montenegro divided up Macedonia amongst themselves, Greece has been claiming that Macedonia was always Greek. Major Ardagh discredits this claims by quoting ancient Greeks themselves and shows that not only was Macedonia not Greek or part of ancient Greece and neither was Epirus or Thessaly. Doc. 41 Memorandum on the Ancient Boundaries of Greece By Major J.C. Ardagh, C.B., R.E. – (Received at the Foreign Office, February 24th, 1881.) The Ancient Boundaries of Greece As the claims of the Greeks to an extension of territories are in some degree based upon the limits of the ancient Greece, I conceived that an examination of the early Greek geographers would throw some light upon them, and I have been able to procure, and annex extracts from them in Greek with translations. Strabo, Scylax, Dichaerchus, Scymnus, and Dionysius all concur in making Greece commence at the Ambracian Gulf, and terminate at the river Peneus. The catalogue of the ships in the Iliad, the various lists of the Amphictyonic tribes, the states engaged in the Peloponnesian war, the travels of Anacharsis , the description of Greece by Pausanias, and the natural history of Pliny—all give proof of the same fact, by positive or negative evidence; nor have I found anywhere a suggestion that Epirus was Greek, except that Dodona, the great oracle, though situated amid barbarians, was a Greek institution, and the legend that the Molossian Kings were of the house of Aeacidae. When Epirus first became powerful, 280 B.C., Greece had long been under the complete ascendency of the Macedonians, and after the fall of the Empire at the battle of Pydna, 168 B.C., it became a Roman province in 148 B.C. The establishment of Greek independence in 1832 was exactly 2,000 years after the battle of Pydna.  Strabo: (1) The tribes extending beyond the Ambracian Gulf to the eastward, and contiguous with the Peloponnesus, are Greek. (2) The tribes from the Strymon to the Pontic passes and Haemus are all Thracian, except on the coast which is inhabited by Greeks. (3) On the right of the entrance (of the Ambracian Gulf) dwell the Acarnanians, a Greek tribe. On the left is Nicopolis and the Kassopaeans, an Epirote tribe. (4) The Peneus divides Lower and Maritime Macedonia from Thessaly and Magnesia, and Haliacmon Upper Macedonia. (5) But the Peneus bounds Macedonia towards the north, and Thessaly towards the south.  Scylax: Periplus:– (1) From Ambracia Greece is continuous (along the coast) as far as the river Peneus. (2) Up to this point (the country of the Magnesians) Greece is continuous from Ambracia. Dicaearchus: (1) I therefore draw the limits of Hellas at the country of the Magnesians, i.e., to the Vale of Tempe.  Scymnus: (1) Obove Tempe towards Olympus is the region of the Macedonians. (The writer describes the Thesprotians, Chaonians, Molossians and the inhabitants of the interior of Epirus, as barbarian. 430-460.) (2) Greece is continuous from Ambracia to the Peneus. Homer: In the catalogue of the ships in the second book of the Iliad, Acarnania, Aetolia and Thessaly are the most northern districts mentioned. The others are Boetia, Phocis, Locris, Euboea, Athens, Salamis, Argos, Mycinae, Laconia, Messenia, Arcadia, Crete, Rhodes, and Isles. The amphictyonic people. The names are given by Aeschines, Theopompus and Pausanias:  Aeschines: Thessalians, Boeotians, Dorians, Perrhaebeans, Magnetes, Locrians, Aeteans, Phthiotes, Maleans, Phocians.  Theopmpus: Ionians, Dorians, Perrhaebeans, Magnetes, Achaeans, Maleans, Dolopes, Aeneans, Delphians, Phocians, Phthiotes  Pausanias: Ionians, Diopes, Thessalians, Magnetes, Maleans, Phthiotes, Dorians, Of these, none belong to Epirus; indeed there are neither Aetolians nor Acarnanians.  Thermopylae: The next catalogue which throws light on the subject is that of forces under the command of Leonidas at Thermopylae. They are enumerated by Herodotus, Pausanias, and Deodorus as follows: Peloponnesians, Thespians, Thebans, Phocians, and Locrians (or Milesians). Forming in fact, something less than the present limits of Greece.  Thucydides: In book II of the Peloponnesian War, Thucydides gives a catalogue of the states ranged on either side as follows: With the Lacedaemonians: All the Peloponnesians except the Argives and Achaeans, the Megareans, Locrians, Boeotians, Phocians, Ambraciots, Leucadians, and Anactoreans With the Athenians: Chians, Lesbians, Plataeans, Messenians of Neopactus, most of the Acarnanians, the Corcyraeans, Zacynthians, with certain islands and colonies.  Anacharsis: Travels in Greece, 357 B.C. There are 14 other nations in Epirus. Pausanias does not even mention Epirus  Pliny: Natural History, book IV: He places mount Olympus in Thessaly, but does not precisely define the boundary of Macedonia, which he describes as extending to the Adriatic.” With this illustration by Ardagh, the Greek cries of “Macedonia is Greece”, is shown once again to be nothing more than a fabrication. The ancient boundaries of Greece do not coincide with the modern Greek borders. These ancient frontiers of Greece are the basis which the present Greek state is using for the claims on Macedonia. This is certainly another piece of evidence that reaffirms the inadmissibility of the Greeks´ claims that “Macedonia was always Greek”. Time and again, this blatant lie is being exposed for what it really represents—a flagrant and shamelessly executed subversion of historical truth—heist of unparallel historical proportions never before seen in the history of mankind. What is so arrogantly flaunted as Greek heritage is nothing but a stolen property from the Macedonians. Between these rampant Greek lies and deceptions and the silence of the European academicians, who, certainly, know the truth, runs the menacing current of the biased and the hypocritical attitude of Europe itself. Human rights issues in Greece are of paramount importance and Europe remains silent. By not addressing these obvious violations of its own constitution, Europe undermines its own reputation. By not attending to these flames of hatred and racism exhibited by the Greek government, Europe diminishes its own stature and weakens its own institutions. Europe must find courage to tell Greece, simply to “grow up”, as said by former US Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger in the interview for the Macedonian Television. And in the words of the former German ambassador to the Republic of Macedonia, Hans Lothar Schteppan, Europe must recognize that “Greece’s strong objection to the name was laid on a foundation of lies”.

  23. Maco Stlovski the Greeks excelled in mathematics then and now.More than i can say of the fake and pretensious Scopians that are ashamed of their Slavic and Bulgarian origins.

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